So, this is an issue that I’ve been thinking about for a while. I’m really interested in talking about the theology of what comes after our earthly life and how we see that portrayed in our liturgy and in the things that we say to grieving people.
Often, I hear things that I think are just awful – “God needed that person in heaven”. But, looking at other sources, even the comment, “That person is celebrating with God today in heaven” seems to be wrong.
Catechism, “The Christian Hope”, BCP 1979, 861-862
Q. Why do we pray for the dead?
A. We pray for them, because we still hold them in our love, and because we trust that in God's presence those who have chosen to serve him will grow in his love, until they see him as he is.
Q. What do we mean by the last judgment?
A. We believe that Christ will come in glory and judge the living and the dead.
Q. What do we mean by the resurrection of the body?
A. We mean that God will raise us from death in the fullness of our being, that we may live with Christ in the communion of the saints.
These (and the rest of the questions in the section), point to a theology of the resurrection of the body. Another seminarian once told me that this is the theology. So, we don’t die and meet Jesus right away.
But what about the collects used in the burial office?
“Accept our prayers on behalf of thy servant N., and grant him an entrance into the land of light and joy, in the fellowship of thy saints;” (BCP 470).
“Receive him into the arms of thy mercy, into the
blessed rest of everlasting peace, and into the glorious
company of the saints in light” (BCP 483).
Are we really saying then that we are praying these prayers for an event in the future? I’ve never heard them this way. I’m worried about this from a pastoral perspective. Obviously, not everyone agrees about what happens (and we can never know), but I feel like I kind of missed some major point somewhere along the line.
At his father’s funeral, Stanley Hauerwas says, “But the great good news is that he has joined the other saints of God’s kingdom gathered around the throne. He is among those who now worship God, continually sheltered as they are by one who alone is worthy of worship. He has joined the great communion of saints, that same communion that we enjoy through God’s great gift of this meal of genleness…” (In Good Company: The Church as Polis, 1995, 48).
The BCP and Hauerwas don’t line up for me. Others have suggested to me that there is a delay between the death and the moment of meeting God but “it doesn’t matter, we’re dead – we have no concept of time” or “God’s time happens instantaneously, there is a break, but there isn’t”.
I would appreciate some feedback on this. Are there other sources that I should look at? Is there something that I missed?
Posted by Heather Voss at December 17, 2003 03:07 PMI don't know specific sources, but reading a little theology about time would be useful. If The Kingdom is here and coming, if there is any a temporal aspect to God and the Kingdom, would there not also be a both/and for those who have gone before us and are awaiting judgment in the same moment?
Posted by: Tripp at December 17, 2003 03:30 PMHeather:
There are two seemingly conflicting ideologies surrounding this topic. One is the the promise of everlasting life immediately following death "Today you will be with me in paradise." "the tombs of the saints opened" and a Pauline notion of Christ coming back, (think about the issues of Christians dying before Christ came back.)
Tradiotional theology termed this quandry as:
The Church Expectant- which is the Church both dead and alive waiting for Christ's second coming, or that are in a state of purification.
THe Church Triumphant- The Fulfilment of the Kingdom after Jesus' second coming or the church having reached that state of purification.
The fact is that we do not really know for sure how all this works...hence the two seemingly different theologies. We must take into account both notions- both of them do however point to the fact that we have eternal life after our mortal death. If this doesn't make sense to you, or it is something you are interested in knowing more about I can spend a bit more time and gather a few sources to help clarify what it is that I mean.
Posted by: Jeff Reich at December 17, 2003 08:31 PMWell, when we tackled this subject in Biblical Theology
But the Bible really doesn't promise that there will be a period of time in a place called Heaven, with the angels, all the previously deceased Christians, and so on. Not the way I read it at any rate.
Posted by: Mark J. at January 3, 2004 04:09 PM